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Market List Guidelines - Discussion

Discussion in 'Community Talk' started by Slind, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Slind

    Slind Founder

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    Moved from: Opinions Needed - Market List guidlines suggestions | MineYourMind Community

    Laying the rules out in detail is great but is it practical? Are you reading the terms of use when you sign up? I feel like we are going towards such a direction, making it time consuming to read and hard to understand. The goal here shouldn't be to outline every scenario, as with everything there will be worm wholes and it makes it user unfriendly.
    I doubt this direction is the right way to go.
    ^ Think about it and let me know what you think. (Put your self in the position of only knowing a hand full of mods and being 12 years old.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  2. Lawmonark

    Lawmonark Well-Known Member

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    This all started because a certain player demanded the server provides a complete list. He said "If its not on the list, I am going to sell it". To be honest i would much rather get rid of players like this. Players that push the limits of the rules and staff. It would be better for the community since we would not need to control the rest of the player base because of a few troubling players. Majority of our players will call out an item on the market for being endgame.
     
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  3. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    Thats exactly why I have consistently said that restricting what people can sell is a bad idea. You need a rule that is crystal clear enforceable and where everyone can easily and determinantly understand what they can and can't do. And thats why I said in the past, unless you want to make a very long list, you can either ban selling things alltogether or remove restrictions from what you can sell.

    BTW: Demanding that the server get rid of me because I want to know exactly what the rule says is pathethic. What are you going to do, demand a ban for everyone who questions your narrow interpretation on an unclearly defined rule? Really?

    Sorry Crhymez I know you for quite a while and I like you quite a bit but the crapfest you are pulling here is getting very annoying to me.
     
  4. Lawmonark

    Lawmonark Well-Known Member

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    Your name was not mentioned. While a quote from you was, that quote was said to me. I also idid not demand you get banned. I merely stated what i would do in the situation where a player was trying to push the rules. While the current market has restriction about endgame items with an "incomplete" list, all of the players have been using common sense of what to sell and not to sell. And if a player was trying to sell something considered endgame, the rest of the community would say something.
     
  5. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    You make many assumptions here, most of which are only correct for a fraction of the community:

    1. Most people that play on a server do not care enough to ever read the forums, or the rules thoroughly. In fact that can be extended to more then 75% of players. Maybe less on TDT.

    2. You cannot presume that the community can find a consensus on what is and isnt endgame without open debate

    3. You cannot presume that even a majority of the community in total agrees with an restriction to sell anything or even knows about it. Go on infinity and ask 10 different people. I bet you at least 5 have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  6. Bennyboy1695

    Bennyboy1695 Well-Known Member

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    Let's keep the arguments and maliciousness away from the post please and focus on the topic of the post and not arguing with each other !
     
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  7. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    Slind invites said argument explicitly only 3 posts above.

    On the topic in general:

    I still think you should go with "Sell what you please and if you don't want to spoil your gameplay, don't buy it" as a rule instead of delicate distinctions on what you can and cannot sell.
     
  8. Slind

    Slind Founder

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    The initial rule was born from the issue of rapid full thaumcraft progress sharing. Something we and also players didn't like. Everything else has been added/developed over time.
    I do not fully agree on a full un-restriction when thinking back. The current situation still feels better than what we had, but we could really think of other solutions.
     
  9. Lawmonark

    Lawmonark Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the current state of the market restrictions is great.

    You can sell the majority of the items from the pack you are playing. The current rules try not to restrict every item via a list.
    As long as your not selling Top tier items your fine.

    Requesting a complete list will only restrict you more. They might add items your currently able to sell.

    @Magisch I am pretty sure you understand what the higher teirs of mods are. This is why this whole argument we are having is stupid. You think there should be no restrictions, yet you are requesting a list that includes every item. By doing this you will only be restricting yourself more. Why not play with the current set up and sell what you feel is not too much of a head start for a new player just joining the server. The server most likely wont remove the current "endgame" list. So why push it so they add more? This is why its so frustrating to me. I still stand by my previous statement, It is better for the server to remove players that try to push rules, rather then make the rules stricter. This was not directed towards you but a general statement towards all players.
     
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  10. julio1237878

    julio1237878 Game enthusiastic

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    If we go with the rule of "Sell what you please" Then imagine all the unfair items that will sale that are useless to player because they are player soulbound , private , Blood Magic bound , Thaumcraft and this apply to other mods As well and in my opinion this looks like a disaster since many post, ticket and players asking for help will be created every 10 or 20 minutes asking for refund , change. all because they did't know or bough it because it looks op

    there always will be this player that will put a item that will not work

    Many players haven't learn every mod and buying something new that can't be use because they don't have research or its bound to another player its a issue

    I like the system we have of what not to sell on the market

    feel free to disagree with me
     
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  11. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    Why do you specifically care if someone wants to spoil their own endgame? If someone has more fun that way, why do you as a server owner care? Its not like beeing on the server is a competition. If someone desperately wants to spoil their gameplay and have fun that way, why is that so bad? Everyone who doesn't want to always has the option to not buy things they dont like.

    @Crhymez My stance on these rules is: Every rule should be clear enough so any given player has an absolutely uniform understanding on what it encompasses. Rules need to apply to everyone equally. That includes that everyone knows exactly what they can and can't do. I find this very important.[DOUBLEPOST=1433946176][/DOUBLEPOST]
    I do think that soulbound and items that are absolutely unusable should be one of the few items actually restricted from sale. That, and banned items, but thats pretty much it.
     
  12. julio1237878

    julio1237878 Game enthusiastic

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    I don't know if we yet have a restriction of what items can be put on the market i may be wrong i may be right

    But again there will always be this player that will do it and there always be more
     
  13. Lawmonark

    Lawmonark Well-Known Member

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    Endgame Items | MineYourMind Community
     
  14. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    Are you in essence arguing that the only items restricted from sale should be those that end up beeing unusable for the buyer, then?

    I can agree with that.
     
  15. Slind

    Slind Founder

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    Why is gambling 18+ or even forbidden in some countries/states. Humans don't care about others by default, so why does something like this exist?
     
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  16. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    Gambling has severe real life consequences and actually wastes real money and is severely addicting.

    This is a minecraft server where the worst that can possibly happen to you is that you get slightly bored. Everyone on here is trying to have fun, in one way or another. Why restrict how if it doesn't affect the fun of others?

    So I think this comparison is kinda moot.
     
  17. Lawmonark

    Lawmonark Well-Known Member

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    The reason a servers dont like the sharing and selling of end game items is...... the servers longevity.

    What i mean by this is, for every endgame items a players buys, it lowers their total play time. Doing so lowering the overall population of the server.

    Lets say you Magish start selling items that took you 4 hours to create, that you can now auto craft in seconds. Now you sell those items to players that just joined the server. Lets say 4 people bought your items.... thats 16hrs of playtime lost to the server by those players. You play multiplayer to play with others, if those others can progress to endgame and quit by just buying items.... it reduces the people you play with
     
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  18. Magisch

    Magisch Patron Tier 3

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    This is kinda like the lost sale fallacy. You have no way of knowing if these players wouldn't just leave again because they couldn't be bothered to make those things to begin with. I don't think the data merits that conclusion and its certainly not implicative.
     
  19. julio1237878

    julio1237878 Game enthusiastic

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    Not just the ones that are useless

    The mod author made it for you to progress trought thir mod my last words is that is best to not spoil the other players fun i mean i known that some players are desperate to buy a item but thats just because of lazyness the mods may be hard when starting but like every mod they reward you with better stuff and as you progress you become and expert and can do it in less time than before

    And if you still lazy about learning the mod just search information and this will make at least a bit easier to understand what you have to do
     
  20. Slind

    Slind Founder

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    So there is no big difference besides one being virtual, which is obvious. Lets consider the "real life" virtual. It ends when you die, the game ends when you quit. Not so much of a difference once you remove the believes of one being unreal. Reality is relative, not absolute..

    In other words, it has no real life impact so we can remove all rules, grief protection and build swastika roads.
     

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