Done [Node 3] "One chunk base" not allowed

I found some signs on our base:
I am not really confident that this is a message from the MyM staff.
Can someone from the staff please confirm that someone from the staff has written it so we can discuss this issue if it really is an issue for the server?

 

The one chunk base thing is bunk and you're allowed to do it, there's been very, very heated arguments about it before on MyM ending with a base restoration due to a panic from the original fight over a "one chunk base", I don't even think that it should be an issue as the block slowdown effect is actually distance based on blocks instead of chunks, visible if you build something at world height and sit at bedrock, you will not get the thing at worldheight to actually do stuff

 

If the signs are in your claim its from staff, normal players cant place signs in your claim. also its right that one chunk bases can caue more lag then spread out bases. plese follow the request on the signs

 

Really? Because all testing I have done so far would indicate this would only be true if you had a chunkloader, as otherwise the entire chunk is never loaded at full speed, only 32 blocks radius from the player inside of the chunk is loaded at full speed IIRC, there's been multiple issues made about this fact before, so it's a surprise to me

 

It isn't in my claim, it is right outside of it.

 

still its bad so please fix

 

Why is it bad? There is no rule against it and I am not fully sure what is meant by spreading our base out.
Would you mind explaining how does the one chunk base cause lag and how exactly should the spreading out be performed please?

 

Its a lot more server firendly to have the base in several chunks. if its all in one chunk the server hangs a lot longer on this chunk then on the others, it has to make alot of calculations with the enourmous count of items/tile entities etc what is going on in only one chunk, this delays the complete server. in your case it needed definetly over 1 t/tick which means you are ruining tps for everyone.
How you can do it? just place some machines in the chunk next to it and some other machines/blocks in another chunk

 

I still don't get it. Why should it take more calculations if it is one chunk than when it is in more chunks? This seems really strange to me.

If I spread our base over more chunks, some parts of the base will be running slower, won't they? If it is so, won't I need to create more machines to compensate for that? That would in turn increase the load on the server, if more machines = higher load is true.

 

Remember that Minecraft is pretty badly optimized for servers, and mods can compound that issue. It is entirely feasible that certain blocks, especially pipes for energy, items fluids etc. can, when written awkwardly, cause more issues when complex systems are built in one chunk than they would do spread across multiple. With some systems, especially hoppers, one of the worst ways they can be done is along chunk borders, which can cause frequent chunk lookups if not properly accounted for. Since basically every mod does pipes differently, it can be hard to tell which will cause which problems.
Basically, try to keep each system localised to one chunk, as centrally as possible, but spread out your separate systems with as few pipes crossing borders as possible. Also avoid looping your pipes. Loops are bad, m'kay?

 

thats why you use the chunkloaders /cm
so your machines run at normal speed

if you want to excactly know why it takes more resources you need to make your own investigations since its a really komplex topic and would need alot of time to understand.
we have some faq and performance guidelines in our wiki you can look them up.

just for an example imagine you have to search a needle in straw
its much easier to find it if there is less straw is spreaded instead if its lying in together and is a big pile.
thats the idea behind some algorithms

 

From what I have understood up to now, if want to avoid using chunkloaders without needing to afk for a long time, I have to build everything in one chunk or use more machines spread in more chunks. Both create a high load on the server so there is no way out of this.
If chunkloaders are required to not affect the performance of the server with a base, they shouldn't be gated behind voting.

 

its up to you how you make it at the end. the point is your base was casuing performance issues so you have to spread it. its a multiplayer server you have to accept that other players also want good performance. if you dont want to vote then dont vote but that means you cant use the chunkloaders. if you dont chunkloaders the other chunk speeds are reduced a bit but thats something you have to live with.

 

Reduced to the point where you have to place ~5 times more machines to compensate

 

How big performance issue is our base causing and which blocks exactly are the cause? I am not really sure sure that our base has enough machines to cause big issues so I would like to know more details.

 

Yes it was me that placed the signs. So it appears my wording was not the greatest I could have chosen. What I actually meant was: Your base was causing lag on the server, and I believe spreading it out would help solve to it. My apologizes for any confusion I caused, and as Wolfi said, please spread your base out. Marking this solved as the questions have been answered.
-Colin

 

I still don't understand how am I supposed to spread it out. Do I move one windmill outside the core chunk? Two? Twenty? Or am I supposed to move few chests to the backyard?

It still doesn't feel right, because if base like ours, missing the most of the game automation systems and having small amount of machines causes lag, there is something very wrong with the modpack or the server.
Can the most offending systems in our base be listed so I can have a look into them? This seems more like forgotten loop (though I don't recall any loops) or bug.

 

The problem with your request is not all automation and machines will lag consistently. One day it might be your ME system, and your cobble generator/compressor machine the next. A good rule of thumb is to try spread out into a 3x3 chunk area.

The general idea is: If you run out of area on 1 layer in the chunk, move to the one beside it. If you need to build up to keep building, move whatever was supposed to go there to the next chunk. I hope this makes sense.
-Colin

 

So what exactly does that have to do with whether it's all in one chunk or not?

Spoiler: lets examine it as a set of hypothetical scenarios shall we:

Base One is a 1x1 chunk tower, it has 4 floors, each floor is dedicated to a different function, floor A is powergen, B is ME system and autocrafting, C is machine automation and D is automated farms. At 2pm server time a profiler searching for laggy ME systems flags the ME system in floor B as causing lag, then later at 4:20pm server time another profiler checking for laggy EIO conduits flags the conduits on the farms in floor D.

Base Two is a 2x2 chunk bungalow, it has only one floor separated into four 1x1 chunk rooms, each room is dedicated to a different function, room A is powergen, B is ME system and autocrafting, C is machine automation and D is automated farms. At 2pm server time a profiler searching for laggy ME systems flags the ME system in room B as causing lag, then later at 4:20pm server time another profiler checking for laggy EIO conduits flags the conduits on the farms in room D.

....soooooo assuming that in each case the profiler ratings for each relative system was roughly the same, just how exactly is Base Two any better for the server than Base One, given that it was the individual machine systems/setups that actually caused the lag, not whether the base was spread out horizontally vs vertically, assuming in both cases either the entire base was chunkloaded or the player was standing close enough to every machine for them to be running at full speed then both bases would have been using roughly the same amount of server resources in both cases.

I think what this comes down to here is an over-zealous intervention, as I honestly don't think it is yet necessary to force Alven to spread out his base just because of one documented case of it causing lag, unless you have data to the contrary that lag might have been a one-off instance, both times I was an Admin we would only start telling people to change stuff if it was repeatedly and consistently causing lag, and even if his base was showing up consistently it would still be better to find what specifically in his base is causing the lag vs possibly moving that same laggy setup one chunk over which may still cause just as much lag in that chunk as it did before meaning Alven was forced to move it for nothing.

 

Hello,
At no point in this thread did we force Alven to do anything. We merely ask that he please expand out into the neighbouring chunks. I do not have solid evidence for this, but on more than a few occassions, his base was a substantial source of lag. Also as I said earlier, lag isn't always consistently caused by one thing, which makes finding the specific cause difficult. There is solid evidence that having lots of machinery and automation in one chunk does cause extra stress on server resources.

All we ask is that you respect our judgement, and please make an effort to reduce lag by spreading the base out.

Locking the thread as the original topic has been dealt with.
-Colin