Just wanted to make a suggestion about how the market cuts out 18% of every item, it's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. For example if you are bad at math like me (Had to use a calculator to find out the %) Someone bought an item for 250Mym, it came back to me, as 205, thats a 45Mym cut. Complete and utterly ridiculous Considering it's used to buy claim blocks, thats a lot cut out if you add up the amount, over time. I recommend that the cut be 10%, if not be removed at all. Please consider this, seriously.
Here is a post that talks about this already. Please give it a read. Double taxes when selling items on /market. Why? | MineYourMind Community
While it has already been discussed in the thread that you (Peace7904) linked, it still wasn't explained fully. There isn't really a good explanation as to why the server has to unnecessarily dissolve such a large portion of someone's funds just to sell something on the market, and honestly, all I get out of that thread is that nobody wants to change it because it's been like that forever. There are a couple comparisons made to eBay and other services that have taxes too, but those taxes don't exist for economic reasons. They're there to fund the website and its infrastructure. Aside from that though, I've never seen a market that taxes this much on any other server. Most markets don't even have any taxes to begin with, and they're all doing fine economically, so what leads us to believe that having fewer market taxes would somehow cause issues? Imo the only reason to keep a tax like this one around is so that people lose myms faster and have to vote more often as a product
Since Mym's can be exchanged freely and at no loss for Claimblocks, the server's market cut is the only inflationary brake. Simply put, we have to bleed Myms out of the system or they become meaningless as a currency.
I think we did respond to it, and as Brok said if you didn't enjoy my post previously, it is simply to reduce the rate of inflation. Since there is no other purpose to MyMs other than trade and claim blocks without some form of reduction in place inflation can take hold pricing everything into astronomical levels. "Other Servers" also use methods to drain their economy, between maintenance costs on claims and other methods such as server related shops. Ultimately it is a tool to try and balance an economy, and you have the option to not use the market to make your millions of MyMs.
Doesn't make sense. Myms will always have 'meaning' as a currency if there is something to buy with them, that being claimblocks. The tax does not give myms purpose. For those who don't know, 'inflation' refers to increase in prices and a fall in currency value, which in no way shape or form is prevented by a tax on things that you sell. Mym has one of the most basic, stagnant server economies I've ever seen, simply because there is no server shop or anything of the sort. All you can do with myms is buy land, and the only way you can create more myms is through voting. There is no 'inflation' You didn't respond though.? Not for roughly a month. Plus, neither of you really responded directly to what I said Server related shops don't exist to 'drain the economy', that's not necessarily true. The only thing it does is define the economy and the value of it's currency. It doesn't counter inflation. I also have never seen a 'maintenance cost on claims', I don't know where you saw that, and either way, that's not an 'anti inflation measure', it just adds to the overall cost of claiming land. That's not the same as taking a percentage cut of what a player sells an item for, which is something I have never seen on any server, and I still don't understand the rationale behind it at all. Either way, this tax has existed for an extensively long period now. Why would it be so bad if you tried disabling it? If this purely hypothetical inflation did actually occur, you could just reimpose the tax, so I don't see the issue. As far as I'm concerned, you guys are only coming up with these excuses to support the tax for two reasons: You don't like change and you like it when people have to vote more often for myms (because if you make myms through selling, you lose a percentage, whereas if you vote, you just get a set amount.) We have yet to see inflation, the mym economy is about as basic as it gets, and it appears that most players are in favor of removing the tax, so why not try it? It's not difficult to disable and it isn't gonna destroy the server somehow, and if so many players want it, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to try. As mentioned previously, if it doesn't work, just reimplement it Edit: Also, "Most [server] markets don't even have any taxes to begin with, and they're all doing fine economically, so what leads us to believe that having fewer market taxes would somehow cause issues?"
B-team is a market based server on MyM, it has resolved around it's Market since it's opened up. MyM's are very easy to obtain on B-team (depending on the playerbase) due to the demand in certain stuff, a lot of players on B-team focus on certain mods making them specialized in that area during wipes. Because of the activity of the market, MyM's are very easily obtained, without a cap people are able to buy, but this cut helps slow down this process, considering. The market has always had a cut, which has always balanced the player base's balance. When you buy a product in real life, the majority of it goes to the seller, which in terms allows for a the vendor to receive money, as well as the provider. - This balances things out, think of it as a simulation. - Personally, I don't believe that the cut is too much of a loss, I would of loved to see it lowered back when I used to play B-team. My opinion is my opinion though, and I respect yours, but I do feel as if this system is definitely showing a balance that is needed, otherwise B-team would become even easier than it is.
I agree, but it's worth noting that such fees only exist for real life products so that it can fund costs, and the same principle is obviously not applicable on a minecraft server with it's economy
The whole "real life" situation was more for role playing situations, rather than an actual explanation, but I agree, and I must note I played B-team for 2years (roughly) - mostly as staff, but I have definitely seen the Market go through it's bad and good phases, but the cuts definitely does make and break the market.
Which part did you want us to address directly? The percentage? The number is likely arbitrary, but not out of place when compared to the real world as far as income taxes go (it is rather low comparatively to most industrialized nations). If you are asking why do we need to take any of your money in the first place, then the primary reason is inflation, secondary to that is providing a small level of immersion. The idea we are forcing you to vote is a much more muddled issue all together, you need to vote for tokens which you can then use for myms if you want, but you aren't being forced to vote to earn MyMs you can, and I'll tailor the conversation to B-Team since that is where the issue seems to be, you can just sell diamonds to some poor unsuspecting person and laugh your way to the bank without ever having voted. Comparing the MyM market to eBay would be less accurate than comparing it to the auction house of World Of Warcraft where fees range from 5-15% for selling items on the auction house. The tax rate is lower as other money sinks are available to the players that we do not have available to us here. When taken out of the bubble of B-Team other servers also share the same taxation, but because the worlds are younger the prices are much more controlled and moderate when compared to the venerable B-Team. So as someone who floats around from server to server I notice the large variant in pricing with B-Team normally being higher than other servers due to the nature of inflation, not because of an increase in getting the materials.
"Aside from that though, I've never seen a market that taxes this much on any other server. Most markets don't even have any taxes to begin with, and they're all doing fine economically, so what leads us to believe that having fewer market taxes would somehow cause issues?" If you're looking for accurate economic immersion, there should be a number of other things come first - Like land taxes, or taxes when buying something, but I still think those would both be horrible ideas. Either way, at the end of the day, the main function of taxes with any company, country, or business is to pay for things. The server itself does not gain anything from taking people's myms, and that's the main grievance here. The tokens can either be used for myms or random loot bags which are mostly awful. Usually when people vote, they need more land or they want more myms. Additionally, this traces back to what I was saying earlier - You guys don't like that people are getting rich from the market, which is implicated when you say that people can "just sell diamonds to some poor unsuspecting person and laugh your way to the bank without voting". This literally agrees with what I'm saying about you guys wanting people to vote more. 5-15% is substantially lower. What other 'money sinks' do they have? Either way, World Of Warcraft doesn't tax players to reduce inflation, they do it so that the value of gold increases and people have to pay more real life money for tokens, and those tokens have to go through the auction house to be converted into gold, meaning that the auction house tax has a much more applicable and direct purpose. Conclusively, I have the exact same thing to say as I did in my last reply: "The mym economy is about as basic as it gets, and it appears that most players are in favor of removing the tax or reducing it, so why not try it? It's not difficult to disable and it isn't gonna destroy the server somehow, and if so many players want it, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to try. As mentioned previously, if it doesn't work, just reimplement it."
This certainly is begging to feel like a circular argument, your supposition is that the market cut is masterminded by the staff as some underhanded and dastardly means to make you vote. We don't care if you get rich selling from the market, if we did then logic dictates we would eliminate other ways of selling are built within the game itself, and this evil plan would apply to all the servers and not just b-team. Other servers pay the same tax when selling and their economies are flowing just as well as b-team. Also our evil plan to force voting only works if the market is omnipresent which it is not. Progression packs generally have no market at all, and those that do have some of the strictest selling requirements on the market due to the nature of progression. Next up would be Skyblocks where tokens in general are significantly less valuable since your island is claimed for you there is no need to buy claim blocks, and if it is HQM there is no market present, this makes it difficult to "force" players to vote without our reward system having some value to it, in this case they vote for the warm fuzzy feeling, not the myms. As for selling diamonds, I don't see how this forces people to vote, it was pulled straight from the b-team chat when players asked about making money. You can sell anything of perceived value that is basic behavioral psychology, if you think something has value you'd buy it. Diamonds is just an example, most packs this is a valuable and rare block, B-Team you can't walk ten blocks without tripping on them. The auction house cut of 5-15% has been around since the inception of World of Warcraft, even way back in the days when you had to go to Ironforge to peddle your wares, I believe the Neutral AH was even higher then this at one time or another, I never used it so I can't say that is accurate. As to what do they do to drain the economy? Currently they have exotic mounts, special cosmetic gear, training for mounts, bind on account gear, and the black market auction house off the top of my head. While it is easy for an individual player to say, I don't like the tax I want to make more money, we have to consider the population as a whole, removing the one inflationary guard that is present could quickly turn prices into an even more disastrous mess. Since I believe in a free market I'm all for the idea, but I have to consider that new player a might log on, see the outlandish prices and summarily quit because they cannot afford something simple such as food.
Could it work for a market cut to be a flat cost, say $5 to post and then a % on sales? This would both make it costly to spam the market with offers, and would also provide the counter-inflation wanted without preventing aspirational pricing on potentially niche sales.
A, I've said a few times that this is not the whole point of this discussion, I've said multiple times that I feel like it's one of the only ways to actually justify the tax, and B, in my last reply where I mentioned that, it just so happened that you talked about the market in a way which made it seem like you were upset about how much money players make, or something similar. You made it seem like players selling items are villains, and the players buying them are "unsuspecting", as if they're getting bamboozled. View my last reply for more on that Diamonds was your example, don't look at me. Seeing as you guys are so obsessive about inflation, I figured you'd have a general sense of other basic economics principles. If people get less money from selling something, whatever it may be, they either need to sell it for more or make more money elsewhere. The only other way to make money is voting, and if they raise their prices, it decreases how many myms the buyers have, which forces them to vote more if they don't sell items. The tax currently inadvertently forces people selling items to sell them for more
Personally, I see the market cut as a money sink, and this is a good thing honestly. I also think that the numbers could be adjusted a bit, say a flat rate of 20 mym's for posting and 10% sales tax. Adding other money sinks into the game could also benefit the players. Say the ability to buy morphs for break in particular, or biome changes, something like that. Be glad that claims do not have a maintenance cost.
Expanding the economy and giving myms more of a purpose is a good idea in general imo, but it would take lots of work to implement that into every server. 10% tax + a flat fee to post would also make much more sense, and would decongest the market signifigantly. That being said though, in many cases, 20 myms + said 10% would even out to cost more than the current system. Maybe 10 myms? Also, buying vanity/cosmetic perks with myms wouldn't necessarily serve the same purpose, as those things would actually have a virtual value, whereas the market tax just disolves money, and you don't get anything of value in return. ^ This would be a really good idea, maybe a bit more than 5$ though On a seperate note, another thing about this tax is that you aren't actually told about it until after you've sold an item. I think we can all agree that it would be ideal for players to be told about that beforehand
