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Decided Against Increase the forced Restarts or a /vote restart on FTB infinity Expert

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by mauri567, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. mauri567

    mauri567 Patron Tier 2

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    Very often on the server at FTB infinity expert we run into the problem with low tps because of some random memory leak (Since u have to use every single item in the game to progress) and that can be quite disturbing to sit and wait for either admins to restart the server or wait for it to crash because of memory leak crash.
    Since we are a small community that enjoys playing on the FTB infinity expert mode i recommend adding these features as some time people cant even join to try the server because of the time out window.

    I really like the server and would love to see any of these implemented, preferably /vote for the restart as one can do it when they are online alone withoout anyones consent and will increase the chances people can join!

    Best regards Mauri567
     
    LordEreh likes this.
  2. LordEreh

    LordEreh Well-Known Member

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    #ResetInfinity (but only maps, leave the playerdata intact, very same idea like the Normal)
     
  3. mauri567

    mauri567 Patron Tier 2

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    Its not really the same thing in normal as in expert, here the whole progression system takes years before u can move to like last millenium, and the whole progression part lies in the stuff u build, so reseting the world in Expertmode would kill aloot of bases and players progression.
     
    BookerTheGeek likes this.
  4. Papers

    Papers Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention there's far more machinery in expert mode.
     
  5. Sandstroem

    Sandstroem Patron Tier 3

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    Restarting more often doesn't solve anything
     
  6. mauri567

    mauri567 Patron Tier 2

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    Im sorry to say but it does, ur argument is invalid as everytime the restart happends the tps goes up to 20 and the server is playable again.
     
  7. LordEreh

    LordEreh Well-Known Member

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    till some1's base starts laggin gain bc lying down entities and items or unkilled mobs
     
  8. Sandstroem

    Sandstroem Patron Tier 3

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    The problem is that a restart just hides the underlying issue and it is just a temporary fix.
     
  9. LordEreh

    LordEreh Well-Known Member

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    something like treating symptoms not causes?

    I think the best solution i can come up with is to disable ALL OFFLINE chunkloaders - so if server gets laggy its your fault shaggy for loading lagging machines. Aido wont ask for telling whos online when server starts to lag out without reason.
     
  10. BookerTheGeek

    BookerTheGeek Patron Tier 3

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    Hm... Let me try to explain why your request, while fine on the surface, is not in the actual best interests of the server.
    1. As @Sandstroem pointed out, restarting the server does not actually fix the underlying issue. It just treats the symptoms and not the cause of the issue.
    2. We actually need to let the server lag. This is so an admin can look through the logs on the back end and find out what is causing the lag.
      • Better still if one was in game playing this pack so they could run in game commands to help locate the issue.
    3. It is even better if it is a particular block causing the lag and maybe a crash as that will show up in the crash-report. Thereby making it easier to remove said block.

    That all being said, none of that helps you in game. So... What to do?
    1. Maybe we could get some staff to start playing on Infinity Expert. So they can help diagnose the issue in real time.
    2. Make sure you ( @mauri567 ) are in the discord, and let staff know when TPS drops below 15
      • Staff, you need to be able to get onto IE and diagnose the issue when it is brought up and not hours later.
    3. Keep track of who logs on right before TPS tanks, for cases of bases that are not offline chunk loaded.
    4. We could do a ONE TIME removal of all chunk loaders, which would keep the offline chunk loaded bases that are lagging the server unloaded with a message in game explaining why they were removed. This would help the world playability until the actual issue is fixed.

    Maybe we could get @Aidoneus or another admin to weigh in on the conversation? (Love you buddy. Sorry to call you out like this)
     
    Gabezetrainboy4 and Sandstroem like this.
  11. Aidoneus

    Aidoneus Director Booster

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    Here is the deal with this, this is a Java memory leak. Which makes it incredibly hard for finding out what the issue is. If you are not a Java developer, you really don't know what you are looking for when we create heap dumps. What is worse when reading this heap dumps, it doesn't tell you where in the world it is happening.

    I did end up fixing 1 of the issues a week or so ago I believe and it was running smooth for 4-5. Then it came back and I haven't had a chance to look at it again.

    But Sand and Booker are right. Restarting the server more frequently isn't going to do anything. Giving the server more ram only prolongs the inevitable.

    I will dive into this again as soon as I can, but help me help you by pinging me in Discord so I can run our memory analyzing tools
     
  12. BookerTheGeek

    BookerTheGeek Patron Tier 3

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    Feel free to forward me the dumps and I'll see what I can see if you want.
     
  13. mauri567

    mauri567 Patron Tier 2

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    As i like to play this game there is nothing preventing me from paying for my own server and keeping it up for the same cost as patron where i could restart it will, the annoying thing is not only that the server lags, its also the fact that we need to depend on admins who might not have time to restart it, 1 small mistake and we might need to wait for 2-3 hours until its playable again, and for u to fix the server might take a few weeks, so this might be a patch-up for the real issue, but im a realist and people dont like to play and will stop if u dont do these patch-ups.
     
  14. Kronnn

    Kronnn Well-Known Member

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    /vote restart and similar systems have been tried on the network a handful of times before, and always without fail led to disastrous results. Every time what ends up happening is the second a server dips below 20 tps for whatever reason and no matter for how long, or if the server hitches for a literal second, players will spam the ever loving crap out of that command and what you are going to end up with is a server that spends more time restarting than it spends online. And variations have also been tried, for example not allowing the command to be used x amount of time after a restart, which leads to the server being restarted every single time x amount of time after a restart, even if there is no actual problem happening.
     
  15. mauri567

    mauri567 Patron Tier 2

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    Then i guess you, my good sir, have seen the amount of players on the FTB infinity expert server? At most we had 6 players online at the same time, otherwise we are about 1-4 players at most, but that is on the weekends, during the weekdays we are about 0-2 players online unless the tps is at 3, then noone is online.
    Having a vote /restart on only the expert server would help the small community that plays there and could also make it easier for new players to join as they dont need to join at specific times when server tps is good, they could join when its laggy and noone is online and do a /vote restart, because during this week, atleast 6 new faces has joined only to leave because of the TPS.
     
  16. AoifeEnns

    AoifeEnns Consultant

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    As the latest changelog notes, the problem has been solved, so this is not needed.
     
  17. misscatlin1951

    misscatlin1951 We die so others may live. Patron Tier 3

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    FTB Infinity expert has ALWAYS had a lot of problems. I once heard that one of the mod authors actually recommended a 16Gig memory allotment to run the Expert pack. This was years ago but because of the memory hole in JAVA , it is almost needed. I don't play that pack anymore because of the unresolved JAVA leak. It is so bad that it has jammed op a small 64 Gig server. I do not recommend this pack because of the memory leak. Unfortunately, the mod authors have never really addressed the memory leak and I will not play that pack. Regular Infinity does play out hard, but it takes quite a while to reach that stage.
     
    Gabezetrainboy4 likes this.
  18. AoifeEnns

    AoifeEnns Consultant

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    Well, it's a good thing our admin team is very smart. While it did have a memory leak problem for a while, they were able to track it down and solve it. Does that mean it will never happen again? No, but it can happen to any Minecraft modpack, and we have seen it on many. However, our admin team always does the best they can to patch or fix it when it does happen.

    As for recommended allocated RAM, in general, 1.7 packs need between 2 and 4GB, and 1.10+ need between 4 and 8GB. We also do not recommend going above 8, as giving JAVA too much can also cause issues just like too little.
     
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  19. misscatlin1951

    misscatlin1951 We die so others may live. Patron Tier 3

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    True. This was an unqualified test to see exactly what Java could do if left unchecked. The system was new at the time with no one other the server admin on. Expert was allowed to run. this continued for 4 days before a leak developed. This leak quickly grew to eat up the complete 64 gig that was allowed for the server. Time? 17 days, 18 hours 22 minuets and 18 seconds. This was reported to the mod author's who worked on it for over a month before they said it was ready to go back into the program list of FTB. All said... the pack is not worth the headache that it gives staff, because staff has to be in monitor mode on the server at all times and it just is not worth it.
     
  20. AoifeEnns

    AoifeEnns Consultant

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    Maybe it used to be like that, but not anymore. Yes, there is occasionally an issue we have to deal with, but the more common reason staff have to go to any of our infinity servers is due to player-caused problems, like grief. If you don't like Infinity, that's fine, but it is one of our more popular modpacks and has been on our network for a very long time. In fact, since the source of the memory leak was found and dealt with, I have only had to handle 1 thing on any of the Infinity servers, which was after someone blue up their base and had far too many items on the ground. But that was a player issue, and easily fixed.
     
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