Allow option for old thaumcraft research system

solution: install thaumcraft 3

 

Although I am new to the server, I've played Thaumcraft 3 and 4 countless times on other servers and in single-player, and can vouch for easy-mode "research" being tedious. If it sticks, I'll probably end up making a bunch of deconstruction tables and combining aspects to unlock things. This certainly would not feel as nice as being able to complete the mini-game and save research points, resources, and time.

 

Btw i heard crafting tables were the best in deconstruction tables, shame you cant automate them

 

Simple fact is that if you scan all the vanilla items, and the mod added items from the thaumcraft addons, you will have enought to unlock everything. Plus all the nodes in both the overworld and farmworld.

Prove to me you cant and this would become a valid dicussion.

 

*scan every item*
Do you have any idea how tedious that would be? Most machinery, despite their looks, gives 1 aspect per aspect they contain.
You were the one originally suggested easy mode on the *make redo thaum less tedious* also. I've scanned a bunch of nodes, and all item in my lategame base, ME, everything. I got enough to proceed and unlocked things I need, which was handful (osmotic, enchants, warding, excavation). You don't seem to realize that by scanning normal item, most of which is terra branch heavy (arbor, metallum and such, which is not used in any of the higher tier), while repeated praecantatio, auram and instrumentum usage is extremely costly due to high tier aspect costing much more than lower ones. (auram and praecantatio is heavily aer based, thus you will be constantly hunting for nodes despite having abundant point everywhere else). I could theoretically spend more time flying around deepdark, but I don't see the worth of doing so.

Your logic is also flawed and childish. It's not a question of just can and can't, it's also a question of time, cost and feasibility. Easy research is much more time consuming than normal, even hard research. You somehow managed to drove the original older suggestion to *easy mode*, which is arguably turns things worse, as you can see every other suggestion to turn on easy mode was shot down by both moderator and votes.
The one that passed, was originally to address another issue, which was made worse due to the change.

 

Name calling aside,

If you read through the previous threads, you will see all the reasons you bring up have already been dicussed. You personally are bringing nothing new to the conversation. Once you do, ill be more then happy to debate it with you, as long as you can refrain from the name calling that is.

Untill then, I'll be around.

 

Most of the old thread call for method to keep research and argues the possibility of a plugin allowing to do so. Players voting yes would be likely for this argument, not to turn easy mode on. The point being pointed out in the past doesn't mean it can't be brought up again. And I'd doubt the majority voted for easy mode, they voted for something else completely.
You yourself is not bringing any reason why easy mode should be kept, other than what I'd say the result of a vote that I'd describe to be *Trump-like*, and it is *possible* to finish it, which isn't an argument. Proof being I have 6 voted for, and 1 against, likely from you, the original person who brought up *easy mode* suggestion.

 

You do realize how paradoxical that sounds, right? "Use research points to unlock thing, but get research points from thing." Bear in mind that players won't have access to the majority of items in the mods until late-game. If players still need to research, then they obviously don't have all of the "mod added items from the thaumcraft addons."

That's not even mentioning the fact that you offhandedly suggested for players to hunt down every Overworld and Farmworld node, regardless as to how much exaggeration that implies. There are plenty of nodes in Farmworld, sure, but you're averaging 5-10 points per node discovered. That's still ridiculously inconvenient, especially for primal aspects - the stuff that will inevitably yield less points for easy-mode "research" when you need to merge them to make the scarcer compound aspects.

This is arguably worse than TC3 research, which I loathed. You're forced to use the aspects an item contains only once after discovering it to satisfy the research. Maybe in this easy-mode TC4 version there are less required aspects per research, but it is beginning to pain me running out of things like Praecantatio when I easily could have used common aspects such as Herba or primals in researching whatever I'm trying to unlock. Funnily enough, it does not feel like "easy-mode."

Was the purpose of the aforementioned thread not to allow players to retain their research? We are now providing evidence that easy-mode does indeed make it more difficult to accumulate the very thing the previous thread aimed to preserve. It seems that the logical thing to do would be to turn off easy-mode, as it does nothing to make the research easier to gain, seeing as normal-mode is better.

 

You misinterpreted what i said.

1) as you unlock things, scan them. That along with vanilla items will give you enough aspects.

ALSO...

2) If you need more aspects, go scan nodes.

 

Scanning node is time consuming. Unless someone let you scan a mega bee amplified node, which takes days (ingame) and is an endgame item.

 

1) No, it's not enough. As we've said, scarce aspects like Praecantatio or Auram are not common enough to sustain research.

2) We've already said that scanning nodes is inefficient and much slower than simply doing normal-mode research. We're trying to make it so that research progress is easier to reclaim.

 

Can we just have a mix of both and stop arguing?

 

Sadly no, as the mod is set to be one or the other.

Also, not required other then a few you would do independant of the research setting

1a) It is enough.
1b) You're doing it wrong, or have not tried. So you should stop spouting off those claims, as your knowledge on this issue seem to be similar to John Snow. (Damn those white walkers!)
1c) I know it is doable, as I tested it. So... Prove me wrong if you are going to continue to spout this nonsense.

2) Never said it was not, see my response above.

@Multiface, Be honest, you're lazy, and want it easier for you. Plain and simple. At least I could respect that if you had the decency to just come out and say it.

 

on ag skies there is both

 

AG is set to Normal Mode

 

still there is some buy-able ones like the hungry chest

 

Wasn't that clear - I want it less grinding. Easier, if you want to call it that. I prefer to sit down and go through 20 researches at one time without the need to go scan nodes. Doable =/= minimal effort. Why should I give up my rights of having an easier time so others have their *easier* time of not having to play the minigame? The mod pack came with normal by default. I even stated that easy mode is more tedious - If it isn't, it is, for me.
Now would you name Auram sources that adds up to 100 - That's less than the amount needed, but I'll be waiting. I don't have the patient to wait for deconstruction table or want to invest time flying to scan nodes - It is faster to do hand research. Or just wait until my bees give a node 50+ of every aspects, and 1k of primals and unlock all of thaum at once.



Bottomline @BookerTheGeek why would I make a suggestion that do not benefit me one way or another? Humans are logical creature, we strife for first and foremost our own benefits. Maybe you should re-learn that concept before stating the obvious.

 

@BookerTheGeek @Multiface

I don't see your point of view as to why it should be changed. Having it changed because "I am too lazy" is not a valid reason in my opinion (that is at least how I see your argument). As booker said, you can go scan the vanilla items, and the items you create with thaumcraft and that should be enough. If it wasn't enough, easy mode wouldn't be a thing as you could never craft everything in the mod.

Also by your argument:

would mean the EASY research mode is for you. Sure it can be frustrating to go and scan things, but combing the aspects and building the spiderweb of aspects can be just as tedious, and you need to scan the items anyways as the hard modes can take more aspects than just buying the items with research points (depending on how you connect them in the minigame of course).

As booker has also said, if you can come up with a valid reason as to why it should be change to the normal or hard mode, we will consider it. Until then, please keep the name calling and arguing to a minimum. Thanks.

§Colin

 

Whether easy-mode or normal-mode is easier for a player will depend on how familiar they are with the research mini-game and whether they feel it is repetitive. Look back at this thread: Thaumcraft 'Easy Research' is horrible | MineYourMind Community

If you want to argue that going out and scanning nodes for easy-mode research is harder, and therefore people wanting to change it are "lazy," then you could bring the argument the other way as well against people that don't want to do the mini-game.

Can we at least agree that this is a preference, not something you can prove empirically? Most of the people that want easy-mode research to stay in this thread have simply argued that, "It's possible. You can do it this way." Sure, it's possible, and I could say the same thing for normal-mode research, even if you gave a set of reasons why you enjoy it more.

Seeing this thread's poll and an older one (found here: Decided Against - Set thaumcraft back to normal mode, (see my reasons before naysaying) | MineYourMind Community), the opinions are fairly divided. Would it be impossible to set the difficulty to different settings on different nodes in the future? The issue has been brought up several times in the past, and it seems that it will continue to crop up unless it's balanced.

 

My argument:
It was originally normal mode.
It gives the mod more immersion
Originally it was switched to easy mode to make it less grinding. I can't see why making it less grinding can't be a counter argument. Easy mode uses aspect I don't have, normal/hard allows me to use whatever I have on hand.

Please provide a counter argument other than "it's possible to do it" for easy mode continuation.