Decided Against Suggestion for general /rules amendment

I just checked on PO2 for the /rules and they dont state -anything- about the endgame items list on the forums. Alot of players are still completely oblivious about its existence and maybe by adding either an info-spam message, or an extra line in the /rules to tell people to also check these endgame items lists might make that a little less common.

And by doing so you automatically force people to agree to the endgame items list on the forums and thus take away any discussions about that little "ignorance is no excuse" rule which does cover this, but still leaves room for interpretation.

just my 2 cents on the matter.

IF implemented, then i do suggest to add this for ALL servers/modpacks.

 

Well it does state it on the mym.li/rules, but with how often the rule gets broken, it would probably not be a bad idea to add it to the ones listed ingame with /rules

 

I'm all for it being added to the /rules section, but strongly against any form of info spam on servers. It gets very tedious after seeing the same message 500 times.

 

Agree, /rules are completely out of date with mym.li/rules and other rules found on various forum pages.

 

i would assume all the various amendments made to rules via forum posts, but not being visible ingame or even findable via a search on the forums. Its in some cases quite hard to not be ignorant of all the various rules, updates on rules and forum posts per server. There should be a more centralised area where one could find everything in 1 spot.

Maybe it could be even better to just remove all ingame /rules and tell people to visit the forums where everything they need to know about the pack they play is in 1 topic. Ofc, with a clickable ingame link to it

Its mind-boggling to see when playing a pack, how many players are ignorant of the fact there even IS a forum with extra things they should know. (like endgame items or the sprinklers topic wyndman made). Players are constantly breaking progression because they want to be nice to others, but dont know they are actually breaking the endgame item rules on the forums because they dont know those rules exist.

Furthermore the trading rules are very vague on this subject. As a veteran player, i know its ok to trade stuff between players if they can make those items themselves, even if they are on the endgame items list. (dont trade it if they cant make it)

I also know it should be done in private (PM) and not advertised in open chat. But this is practically nowhere to be found and if found, its on a very outdated forum post or in a topic thats not for that particular pack.

 

ok good point, but... i honestly didnt even see that part which you just posted untill i did /rules for the 3rd time. i think you should lead with that and not put it at the bottom of an entire list of rules... it kinda makes you skip over it.

 

By playing on the network you automatically agree to the rules, so maybe you should have a re-read if you just skipped through them

 

Well ive been playing on this network for a considerable period of time and if 1 person doesnt notice that, its likely others didnt either. all im saying.

 

Yeah, basically that's what I meant is that sometimes when meaningful clarifications or implicit rules are discussed on the forums, the full rule page at mym.li/rules does not appear to be updated. I agree the /rules in game should not have the full rules and the link to the main rules page looks good to me. My main shared concern is that I feel like more steps could be taken in the future to make sure that forum data mining is not required in order to not be ignorant of all of the rules.

I appreciate you looking seriously at this and apologize for not providing examples. I empathize with your position that because of this there's nothing concrete to respond to or provide actions for.

 

Well one of the things I see people doing is they claim there on a "team" when they get caught trading end game items to new players. One of the things I think staff needs to define better is what exactly is considered a team.

 

its been a while since i read all the rules but maybe have it so in the fist /rules its a link to the full list and have a emphtisus when people do /acceptrules that if they failed to read the actual full rules list this would be more of a pain later down the line for them or something along those lines?

 

@Aidoneus Heres what i suggest we do then:

Remove -all- ingame rules when you do /rules.
Refer players to read the rules at mym.li/rules (with a clickable link). Stating if they /acceptrules, and dont read them, they are subject to staff punishing them for their infractions.
Update the rules page to also reflect endgame content and trading of said content. Maybe also mention breaking progression on certain packs. (possibly include a link to the endgame items forum threads)
Maybe also include a link to a forum post with banned items per pack (if possible/desired). The ingame /banneditems page is far from complete on many packs. Also alot of players are oblivious to the fact that command actually exists.

As for validity/actuality of the rules page... i would suggest you add a line on top or the bottom with "Page updated last since: [date here]" and keep this updated regularly (once or twice a month) and ofc changing that line then. That way players wont think the rules are outdated.

Another suggestion for the Chat rules on mym.li/rules:
Add: "Circumvention the profanity filter in any way (alternate spelling or using asterisks) is not allowed"
Alot of players write things like "FFS" or regular "F" in chat. Or just typing **** or f*** / s*** (use your imagination).

 

There is the thread regarding EMC loops for one, which is kinda important since MyM explicitly forbids closed feedback loops even though some mod/modpack devs have stated that they don't really care if people exploit any feedback loops they find and that it should be up to the individual players judgement whether they want to use them or not.


Personally what I would suggest is first remove the additional /rules # pages in-game, leaving only a single page that has only any special rules specific to that modpack, a link to the endgame item lists, and finally a link to the rules page.

Then make the rules page link have an additional token value in the URL based on the players UUID, and modify the /acceptrules command to require a short code as an additional parameter, a code that can only be obtained from the bottom of the actual mym.li/rules page that is generated after clicking the I accept button based on a combination of the players token value and the date the rules page was last modified.

Finally add a mechanism that whenever the rules page is edited, automatically triggers a prompt to /acceptrules again with a link that takes you to the rules page but automatically highlights any recent changes, that way there can be no excuses of "that rule must be new, it wasnt there when i last accepted...".

 

I think this would be the best option, Have the link on the first page so its clear that you need to visit it, Somewhere in the rules mention the Endgame Items, Which links to the forum section about endgame items for each pack (Which would need to maintained and kept updated)
There should also be a section of the forums which is just like the endgame items, But tells you the banned items for each server and why they are banned (Then you dont keep getting the "Why is this banned" messaged. I know when looking for a server I often search the forums to see banned items before I join, And if you have them on the forums people are more likely to see them and decide if they want to join that server or not due to the banned items.

Personally I dont think ffs needs removing (When I was younger I just assumed it was a noise not an abbreviation) and just F is that meme F for respects right? But the whole bypassing with asterisks should be added to the rules.

This seems like alot of work to do, But it would be a smart way to ensure players have looked at the rules, Although personally I dont feel like its a smart idea to force people to have to open a browser to accept the rules every time something changes, As I know some people cant run a browser and minecraft at the same time (Sounds stupid but its true). The fact people have actually typed the command /acceptrules is them agreeing to all the rules. Even if they have not looked at then. Which yes does include page 3 of the rules which has a link to the rules on the website.
So just because your not forced to go there does not mean you should ignore them.

 

I am aware that some people might struggle to run both at once, but I still think that's a necessary burden to expect, especially if they would only need to have the browser open for a few minutes at most (and that's already the expectation when a player has to make a /ticket or /vote while in-game). Ignorance may be no excuse if someone is caught breaking a rule they didn't bother to read, but that still takes up the staffs time dealing with it, which could have been avoided if they had been forced to read the rules properly in the first place.

 

Also, something that keeps happening... Translations in most common languages. Mostly French, Germand and Spanish. Quite some players just use google translate for everything and pretend that not being able to read the rules, means they dont have to follow them.
[doublepost=1541022306,1540995491][/doublepost]Here's another perfect ingame example of people not knowing about EMC rules, since they are nowhere to be found unless you seach for them on the forums. Just check this screenshot. The player in question (which remains anonymous for obvious reasons) admitted to looping in chat and then said to have no knowledge of any of them EMC rules existing.

 

Could this get another look by staff? Seems relevant since we now also have this topic from Ayeitskatiemc about it