Thaumcraft 'Easy Research' is horrible

I finished all the research for KAMI on IE2 before the easy mode was turned on.

Here is my opinion:

Research the note-way is awful. Research the click-to-buy way is just as bad. Research is just crummy. Now? Which is more efficient in terms of research points used/time spent? Probably the note method. @Millumi makes a good point that most of the notes require a ton of top tier aspects intrumentum/humanus/etc for the click-to-buy method which could be better spent when using the note-way

So what's the solution? I would say keep the easy mode (click-to-buy) enabled. It is a lot faster and a hell of a lot less tedious (I'd rather be aspect starved over doing the same note that I've done 10 times before on different servers.

Aspects can be farmed easily depending on the mods available... Here are a few options:

1) Forbidden Magic - Whisperweed (bonus if you use enchanted soil)
2) Crimson Cleric/Knight autospawner
3) Bookshelves/Crystal Clusters around the research table
4) Scan nodes

Still.. Research is awful and tedious and horrible.. So how about a real solution to this problem....

I propose we make it available for people to prove they have completed all the research; once they have completed all the research on one server they will be able to have an admin unlock the research for them instantly if they go to a different server.

 

Good suggestion Zxirl but were is the fun then its like i am asking for a admin to give me a creative energy cell i want to enjoy my research again btw easy mode makes you grind for a ton of aspect while with 4 stacks if i remember correctly of knowledge fragment i could complete the whole vanilla thaumcraft thats my opinion and yes i am one of the few who enjoys the research there is ways to actually do a research that does not consume as much aspects

 

I do not have an opinion either way because I have not dabbled in thaumcraft research due to my base mate Zxirl doing all of it...but I feel that such progressive servers such as regrowth and infinity expert should have their thaumcraft research set to hard.

 

For basic aspects doesnt the deconstruction table make them?

Then research knowledge tree and combine these to upper aspects with a shift click?

All said and done, 'easy mode' is boring. The minigame was dead simple and one of the fun parts of the mod along with the nexus. Without it, you just go click, click, click, endgame item, done. So dull.

 

I bet if someone sat down and measured the amount of time it takes to get to end game both ways the time would probably be about the same. You trade time hunting and farming aspects for time not doing mini games which by now should be old hat and fast to experienced players. If its slow and boring try a different approach, use different aspects to complete them.

Personally, I find easy mode no easier than hard mod. I rather like the mini games, I like having to figure out what is the best choice for the next step, and sometimes just comparing between the cost of easy verses hard, hard mode is cheaper on aspects. I have always enjoyed small breaks from the main game, I like mini games inside larger ones, doesn't matter what game it is.

Custom recipe is nice, however if I'm still at that struggling stage for Aer, giving 9 away for 9 fragments is not ideal.

 

I read that before, the answer is, he's never going to bed, lol

 

The problem with aspect purchasing mode is that it is way more resource intensive than the normal mode. I would have far more research than I do if it was on the normal mode.
A lot of suggestions on how to deal with this mode require really going out of your way to get more aspects, and as a player just starting out, I don't have access to most of them, I don't have a deep dark portal, crimson clerics are nowhere to be found, whisperweed requires a knowledge fragment to make, which requires luck to be found.

 

Feed a deconstruction table crafting tables and you get a guaranteed primal research aspect. And crafting tables have all 6 primals so if you just sit there and feed it enough, you will have all the aspects you need to research everything with easy mode. Is it fun? No, but neither is doing it the hard way in my opinion. The first ten were interesting, then they quickly became monotonous.

And usually in games you have a progression, which is either the illusion of power, or an increase in difficulty. The illusion of power is when you don't actually gain much in skill but you get a lot better at the game because you earn better gear that makes it easier. It's an illusion because you feel more powerful as you are knocking out bigger enemies. I could see this being something like getting hints for which aspects to use, autocompleting sections of the tree, and . The opposite is where it actually does get harder and you have to gain in skill. Arcade games are classic examples.

But Thaumcraft hard mode research is neither. Difficulty doesn't increase; it's still the exact same game of connecting nodes. It's not particularly harder to connect with 5 spaces instead of 3. And we are given nothing to make use feel like we are getting better at it aside from actually starting to memorize the aspect combos.

In an ideal world, thaumcraft would introduce some elements that give you the illusion of power and/or introduce new elements into the minigame that make it harder. Like flux nodes spreading on your note, randomly blocking parts of it so you have to route around or I dunno. Insert any good idea about a puzzle game. But I would also like it if we just had to do the hard way for 20 research notes or so and then it gives you the option to turn on easy so you can finish it out whichever way you prefer.

But that would require changing the mod, which is out. I'm in favor keeping it easy mode just because I prefer grinding a little for aspect points than solving the same tedious puzzle again and again and again.

I'm falling asleep so I apologize if any of this is incomprehensible..

 

Only thing I dislike more than easy mode is standing around waiting on deconstruction tables to slowly crank out what I need just so I can retrieve the aspect manually and let it start over. Only reprieve is that its fairly fast to farm around 8-9 tables at the same time, you can get into a groove of opening the table removing aspect, moving the the next, etc. Set em up in a circle and play whirling dervish for an hour.

I guess if they were automatable more people would use them long term but that breaks the difficulty of the mod. The actual go out in the world and learn about things would be negated, just feed the thing and wait.

 

I just don't get people who think the minigame is hard/tedious. Especially people who would rather have this... travesty of a game mode.

The thing that irks me the most is how inefficient this mode makes you, you collect so many aspects from like, leaves, trees, ores, etc. but you can't use those aspects.
Forcing people to farm aspects also hurts prospective thaumcraft players another way: The guide in the thaumonomicon which tells you which item has what aspect is less likely to be filled up if you're getting most/all of your aspects from these farming methods instead of scanning everything in sight.

 

I found the "easy" mode annoying and actually harder. With old pathing mini-game, you could look at what aspects you had excess of and make a path favoring them. Now its get combining aspects to get that you need (needs research table) and scanning nodes which generate less and less aspects.

I find the new "easy" mode far more tedious than fun. It would not be so bad if all items could be scanned for aspects. IE seems more things than not cannot be scanned, and if cannot be scanned there is nothing to inform you that you have tried to scan it before so you keep scanning unscannable items over and over. Can't go by mod many that some things that can be scanned and have those rare aspects you need and others in same mod that cannot be scanned at all.

 

I highly dislike easy mode, but I understand the purpose of it. Would it be possible to have a second server set up for "Hard mode" research, where we still have to actually do the research papers, for the more popular servers (ie Agrarian Skies 2)?

 

Everyone in this thread needs to go to the dev page for the mod, and send the author requests to implement a per player setting to enable hard mode.

That way everyone can be happy. If tons of people request it, and if it's possible, im sure something could be done.

But as for these servers, there isn't really a solution.

 

This won't happen, Azanor already moved on for 1.8

 

So that means he cant go back and add a small config option?
Or that he couldn't add it in 1.8?

Oh his Patreon he said there "Probably" wont be any more 1.7 betas, not that there wouldn't be. If enough people show a want/need for it, Its not out of the realm of possibility.

 

it practically is, he's focusing entirely on 1.8 to fix bugs now

 

Then, again, it could be implemented on 1.8 packs. But nothing will be done on any mod version if no one asks for it.

As for now, I really see no solution that will keep everyone happy.

 

was also asked for before, by booker, on the git, no response AFAIK